Over the past couple of weeks, on more than one occasion, I’ve had someone say to me some version of this: I know you don’t like/agree with the multi-VA firm model.
I honestly don’t know where anyone got that idea. I’ve actually only written about it once—here. And that was a post about the model being fraught around liability.
Which it is. But there's more, so let me share my opinion.
The multi-VA firm model is a fine model as long as the business is being run soundly. I’m the foundations girl, you know? So my focus is always going to look at the foundation of a business, and how solid or wobbly it is. And you may think it’s far more sexy to talk about other things, but I’m always going to bring the conversation right round to this place so you don’t get whipped up in a frenzy and forget the core of things.
Bottom line: you can’t run a solid business if you’re running it illegally, or with undo risk. That’s a recipe for disaster. And just because the disaster hasn’t happened yet doesn’t make it worth doing. In my mind, unnecessary risk for the sake of making more moolah is just about the dumbest reason I can imagine. Take crazy risks for love. Take wild risks for the sake of doing good in the world. But only take measured risks for money.
Operating illegally and/or with vast liability hanging over your head isn’t measured in any context. And every multi-VA firm owner I’ve talked with is operating illegally and with undue risk.
All. For. Money.
I’m not sure when success ended up equaling gobs of cash. I’m not sure why “enough” isn’t perfectly fine, any more. Maybe there’s a social issue (or issues) at hand. Maybe it’s a “keeping up with the joneses” thing.
But what I want to say is that the possibility of getting rich off a VA business isn’t a high one—if you want to run a smart business.
One thing I don’t lack is vision. And yet, this business was never intended to be a money maker of any magnitude. It was created as a way for a person to have a business of her own, doing work she loved, having ample time for her life, that could move about (geographically) as she did, that would give her security and flexibility, and allow her to make good money. Sufficient money. Money she could live on. But not money enough to buy a Jag with.
And while I’m absolutely open to progress and things changing in positive ways, my best advice for building wealth is this: choose a different business. Get into something else before you start trying to change this model into something that forces you into big unnecessary risk and law breaking. It’s just stupid.
So there you have it. The whole of my opinion.
But I do have one other thought. It’s that for the multi-VA model to “work” with contractors, it probably has to run illegally. There’s no way I can see to be profitable in this model with the help of genuine contractors (at least with contractors located in North America). And why? It’s because you, as the biz owner, can’t make enough from clients to pay the contractors’ self-set fees, or give them enough freedom to do their work to make managing the business and the work product easy enough for you to make your take of the clients’ fees be worth it to you.
If you had to pay them the fees they set for themselves, if you had to retain less control, you’d make less money—never more. In fact, you’d probably go in the hole, and spend many nights crying yourself to sleep.
Legally, and with lower risk, it could profitably be run with employees. But therein lies the rub, doesn’t it? No one seems to want employees, and especially not if they believe what they’re currently doing is just fine.
Bit O’Moxie: Look…if you’re going to set up a multi-VA firm, do it legally and minimize your risk. And don’t assume that you’re ok because the Feds haven’t yet knocked on your door or because your accountant hasn’t said anything to you. Chances are your accountant has no real idea what you’re doing.
Instead, pointedly TELL your accountant what you’re doing, and HOW you operate. Tell him that you are taking in business from people, and farming out the work to others. Tell him what you “require” of your subs. Tell him about your operating processes and procedures—especially as they deal with your subs. Tell him you want him to advise you about whether you have contractors or employees based on tax law. If he doesn’t know, consult a tax attorney.
Then go talk with your biz attorney and get his advice about your liability when you work with subs, and what you need to do to mitigate it. You may also want to confer with a business insurance agent.
Don’t guess. And for the love of Pete, don’t solely go by what others running multi-VA firms tell you is ok to do—chances are their businesses may not be in good shape, either (and they may not know, or may believe they are!)! Don’t get seduced by the gross revenues they’re touting, either. “I’m on track to make a quarter million this year” sounds amazing, but it really doesn’t tell the whole tale.
Next time you hear about a firm, ask the owner how much actually went into her pocket, how many HOURS she worked and doing what, and how many times she wanted to pull her hair out or cry herself to sleep over issues/problems that arose and/or the huge responsibility which fell squarely on her shoulders.
Then compare that to the practice you can build on your own, and decide for yourself if it’s even worth considering owning a multi-VA firm.
And please let me know what you decide in comments. :)
Next week—whether you should consider working in one.
I don't like the multi va model because I want to know who I am working with, and I want to build a team who is loyal to my biz and will work with me for the long haul.
There is nothing wrong with VAs going that route for themselves. But for my biz, I want specific team players who I get to know and can have a relationship with
my 2 cents
:) Christina Hills
Posted by: Christina Hills | June 15, 2010 at 11:15 AM
I have successfully run a multi-VA company for 2-3 years now ... and do it legally. No I don't make gobs of money, but then, that's not why I chose to become a multi-VA company. I chose this model so that I could provide more of the services my clients ask for and to provide more flexibility to my own schedule. It has worked very well. All of my team members are North America based VAs with viable businesses of their own (in fact, many of them are on other multi-VA teams in addition to mine). Our agreement is very clear that team members work with my company on a subcontracting basis only with absolutely no guarantee of hours, and they work directly with my clients. All of my clients and prospective clients know that my company is a multi-VA company ... as it is in my agreement, and very prominently displayed on my website ... and, my accountant knows exactly what I am doing.
Truth be told, it really isn't anyone else's business how much of what I bring in actually goes into my pocket, and as far as how many hours I work each month ... I work as many hours as I choose to work and do only the things that I love to do - with the clients I choose to work with. And, because I very carefully choose team members, I can't remember ever having to tear my hair out or lose sleep over issues that have arisen because my company is a multi-VA company.
I understand that this is just your personal opinion, and don't expect everyone to agree with the model I've chosen for my company, but I would appreciate it if people would not lump all multi-VA companies together, as we are not all the same ... any more than all solo-VA companies are the same.
Posted by: Terry Green | June 15, 2010 at 11:49 AM
Wow, Stacy! I am sure it took a lot of moxie to write this post and many people may be upset by it.
As someone who has chosen NOT to have a multi-VA practice, I have occasionally wondered whether I am missing out on earning potential, so I want to thank you for pointing out the drawbacks (in addition to the one I already thought of - the demands of managing other people) and especially for reminding me that true success isn't measured in dollars and cents, but in the satisfaction I get from supporting myself by doing something I love.
Posted by: Janet Barclay | June 15, 2010 at 12:16 PM
I make a VERY good living running a successful multi-VA company - and in a legal manner. I have several amazing subcontractors as team members, yet, when I needed someone to come into my office to work on a more 'employee' basis, I hired an actual employee and she's been on my payroll for 3+ years.
I did choose this model for the purpose of creating a much larger income than I ever could being a solo VA. Yet, that isn't so I can consider myself "successful", it's so I can continue to help more entrepreneurs, to continue to bring on more team members (to provide flexible work and an income to other women/moms - my purpose!), to be able to support causes that are important to me, to be able to give to my community. So I don't feel bad about wanting to make "gobs" of money. I won't ever buy a jag, but I will support my town's library and schools.
I have also coached other VAs to (legally) create a successful 6-figure VA business. Building a team, or a multi-VA company is one very important aspect of what I coach. It's not wrong to want to create a great income, and creating a business around this model actually creates more ease and less stress than trying to do it as a solo-VA.
Posted by: Donna Toothaker | June 16, 2010 at 07:06 AM
Teresa, I totally agree with you. I also run a multi-VA firm and do it legally. As an accountant, for me there is no other way to run a business. All of my VA go through a very thorough testing phase before hiring. I also provide a lot of on the job training. These processes are in place to provide the best possible services for my clients.
However, Stacy, you are right in that this is not a business that will make you rich. It requires a lot of hard work, dedication, and time. But then, it's been my experience that anything that is successful requires these traits.
Posted by: Heather Villa | June 16, 2010 at 09:54 AM
I agree with Terry's comment - this is solely an opinion-based post but there is a big issue with it - it is heavily misleading (sort of reminds me of John Reese coming out with his "all outsourcing firms are scary" videos a few weeks back).
Not all multi-VA firms are running their businesses illegally, not all are offshoring their work overseas and not all of them are doing it purely for the money aspect.
Like Terry, I have operated a multi-VA firm for four years. My contractors are from North America (except for a graphic designer I had from London, England but his rates were the same as my NA team members), I pay them the rates that they request (I don't dumb down their wages to earn more) and my clients are actually very, very happy.
Each of my clients works directly with my team as a whole - they know the team members, they talk to each of them (if they choose to) on the telephone and they build a relationship with us as a whole.
The benefit of this is that they don't have the liability that comes with having only one VA. Having a solo VA working on your business is THE recipe for disaster -- I've heard horror stories of VAs disappearing and walking out on their clients.
The benefit to the client, when working with a multi-VA firm, is that they don't have to source out different services to different companies. We do everything for them - from graphic design to web design to administrative support to audio/video editing - our team handles all of our client's needs.
As for the "making gobs of money", I don't. I earn pretty much what I did when I was a solo VA working 20 hours a day - I just work a little less now.
The other main difference is that now, I am giving other people opportunities to work. I am encouraging economic growth. I am giving people a start in the VA industry and helping them fine tune their skills. I am building a business that has long-term potential and can survive things like me having a baby (I'm due in December) and family emergencies.
So, I appreciate you sharing your point of view. Not everyone has the desire to create something that goes beyond their solo practice and that's okay. However, when other people do, it doesn't make it illegal and scary.
Posted by: Erin Blaskie | June 16, 2010 at 10:33 AM
Stacy, thanks for your post.
I have to disagree with you, a multifaceted VA practice embodies more intellectualism, diversity, more ways to connect with your clientele. More brains are better than one. If you have multi VA's contributing to an existing and intimate one on one VA to client relationship — multiple VA's could input on the success of your client, and other VA's have talents in differing areas that could contribute to your client's goals.
I agree with not disturbing the quality of a one on one relationship, however multiple platform one on one's creates a network of advice, and information and direction that a single VA practice could never compete with. Then your client misses out.
Posted by: robmcfee | June 16, 2010 at 10:53 AM
Let me start by saying that you are sort of right. If you hire subcontractors and then micromanage them, provide them office equipment, ect, then yes this is illegal. But you are being way too broad here.
Based on what you said, every general contractor building a house in America would be doing so illegally. General contractors have much of the same model as a VA Firm. The owner/contractor does as much of the work that they are able, then they subcontract to other professionals to finish jobs like electric, stucco, ect. This isn’t a new concept, nor an illegal one. You simply can choose to hire subcontractors to come in and finish work for you.
That is what VA firms do, they hire individual VA's (who often have their own individual practice, which means very little supervisions is needed) and subcontract the work out to them.
You might want to talk to your accountant to see how subcontracting work out to other VA's equal illegal activities, as quite frankly (and no offense), I've done the homework and know that’s not the case.
As a side note to the comments: there are a lot of myths about VA Firms circulating here. VA Firms are a group of individuals VA's. Is it a benefit as a subcontractor to have a great group of other subcontractors to pull from in a time of need? Yes! Is it nice to have a "mastermind group" of people who are doing exactly what you are (as an individual practice too) to bounce ideas off of and support each other? Yes! Is it great to have someone doing the sales for you, and you just execute the work? Yes! It may not be for everyone, but it is a very nurturing place to be. And everyone is willing to teach everyone else, so you raise your net value by learning things you would have just turned down on your own.
As far as someone saying I like to know my team. I'm not sure if you have worked with a VA firm before, but generally the client is assigned a team, and that team doesnt change for the lifetime of your stay with the firm. The only reason the team would change would be if someone that had a different set of skills would need to be added. Plus you get the benefit of every piece of your team being in constant contact with each other, working together, and all being on the same page. Sometime, not all the time, but sometimes with having a bunch of individuals you lose a lot of great ideas and suggestions because the left hand often doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. Not to mention, steamlining and processes are very difficult to do when you have a bunch of different sources. I am not against using individuals, as I am an individual too lol, I'm just saying if I owned a online business I would most definitely choose a firm.
Ok, getting off the soapbox now :)
Posted by: Melissa Sullivan | June 16, 2010 at 11:42 AM
This article reminds me of a sweet reminder I just read. Our contemporary lives bring us more money, but not necessarily more happiness. Life might bring us more responsibility, and less time to get things done. It's important to examine our motiviations and what we define success to be. Thanks for the post.
Posted by: Jen Tanner | June 16, 2010 at 11:47 AM
Thanks Stacy for sharing your opinion on the Multi-VA model. Since the term “Multi-VA” originally came from my lips, it’s probably only fitting that I comment. The idea that all multi-VA businesses or those that are successful are running their business illegally quite honestly is totally inaccurate. I have been running a Multi-VA business now for over 8 years. My business structure and finances have been placed before my accountant every year for the past 8 years, and not once has my business been questioned about illegal practices. I am quite familiar with the Canadian Laws surrounding contractor vs. employee and my business follows those laws to the “t”. Am I millionaire, absolutely not, and I don’t believe anyone who has chosen the Multi-VA model would indicate at all that this was their goal when they transitioned into the model. If it was, then they most certainly should not have ventured into it, so this I agree with you on.
My business is set up the same as Terry’s, individuals within North America with businesses of their own and of course full disclosure to clients regarding our structure. I have absolutely nothing to hide. I created this model for myself as a means to provide a diverse range of services to meet my client needs, provide work experience and additional income to other VA’s and have the ability to grow professionally by having the space to write, teach and coach.
This model is not for everyone, nor was it ever meant to be. However for those who choose this model, and get shunned as “not being real VA’s” or having illegal practices is just absurd. If I had known this would have been the outcome of sharing a model with a profession that I love - that people would actually question the integrity of the individuals who choose the Multi-VA model, I would have kept my mouth shut. Good, honest, hard working VA’s run Multi-VA businesses too! There are, believe it or not, lots of us out there.
Posted by: Michelle Jamison | June 16, 2010 at 12:06 PM
Thank you all for joining the conversation. I'm grateful for your voices here!
I do want to point out, since so many of the comments to this point have been defending the model, that I have never said I think it's an illegal model, that VAs who operate within a team are "not VAs" (that's someone else's thought--not mine), or that I'm against the model.
In fact, I started out the post to set the record straight that I'm NOT against the model, and stated that it's a "fine model, as long as the business is being run soundly." All I've done in whatever I've ever written or said is offer a cautionary tale. I think it's smart for VAs considering the model to be safe, and not take undo risks.
Surely we all want that for our colleagues, no?
Posted by: Stacy | June 16, 2010 at 12:29 PM
Just wanted to chime in here as well. I started my VA practice as a solo-VA 4 years ago, and became a multi-VA practice after my first son was born a year later. I love the team model, and it has allowed my business to grow in ways I could never have imagined when I got the bright idea to quit my cushy corporate job and start my own business all those years ago.
I absolutely agree with your comment about the importance of running a business with a strong foundation, and of course, doing it all legally. But, that is *every* business owner’s responsibility to make sure they are doing that. I don’t think that multi-VA practices should be lumped together and have fingers pointed. As Teri Green commented - we are not all the same. It’s important for everyone, multi-VA or otherwise to take responsibility and talk to a lawyer and accountant about their business practices before going into business.
Sure, the Multi-VA model is a bit more complicated in some aspects (and in others, it’s MUCH easier…for me anyway) and there may be increased liability in some cases, depending on the services you are providing. But, you just have to know going in that you as the business owner, are responsible for your company - just as any CEO or business owner.
Posted by: Laurie Cantus | June 16, 2010 at 01:23 PM
NOTE: this was posted before Stacy's response comment, but I had not left my name.
----
First, let's get this out of the way....Yes, I am now and have been in the past a member of a VA Team. I also have my own clients outside of this model.
Next, while your post is strictly your opinion it is also quite scary. In your previous post on Multi-Va firms you wrote:
"As an example: You have an agreement to do work for a client. Some part of it is something you don’t know how to do, or don’t want to do. So you sub out/team out that stuff. The sub/team member screws things up royally, causing a problem for the client. The client loses money, or looks bad to peers, or has some other problem, and royally pissed off, sues…YOU."
You assume (dangerous) that Multi-VA Firm owners would even submit work that was messed up by a sub-contractor to a client...that is your first mistake...what competent business owner do you know that would do that? I have never seen it in the Multi-VA industry...and make no mistake...that is what it is...an industry that has grown out of the VA industry as a whole.
Have I seen subs mess-up work? Absolutely; no business is without that peril, but always, in each instance, the sub is made to re-do the work right (off the clock) or the owner assigns it to another sub and the first sub is not paid. The client NEVER pays for mistakes. In fact, the client almost never even knows their work was bungled (isn't that normal for business???...please correct me if I am wrong here.) To be clear, this is not "the norm". VA's are tested so the owners know their skill-set and strengths...this is a rare occurrence; a Team member "messing up" a clients project or task.
Also, you assume that owners of Multi-VA firms are not (something enough...smart?...financially fit?) to have concrete contracts/agreements drawn up by competent lawyers; contracts/agreements between both them and their clients and them and their subs. Every Multi-VA firm I have worked with has always had the normal, tight contracts/agreements in place. And what is business if not contracts and agreements?? They are what they are. Having them and not having them in our litigious society does not stop anyone from being sued. Do you also assume that because you work for yourself that you cannot be sued? Surely that is an argument for not working at all, whether for someone else or for yourself only, because that is always a possibility. If we all went about not doing things because we could be sued, nothing would get done...EVER.
You have not proven (despite your many protestations to them being "illegal")that these firms are any different from any other sub-contracting relationship, which we have plenty of in the US.
Your premise is based on a lot of assumptions, or from conversations with a lot of non-business minded people who are "playing" business and not actually running one.
This part of your post:
"Next time you hear about a firm, ask the owner how much actually went into her pocket, how many HOURS she worked and doing what, and how many times she wanted to pull her hair out or cry herself to sleep over issues/problems that arose and/or the huge responsibility which fell squarely on her shoulders."
Is every business ever started! What business owner do you know that does not start out working 80 to 100 hour weeks AND succeeds?
No, owning a Multi-VA firm is not for everyone. If, as you said, you started as a VA to just "have enough", then it is not for you, but just because it is not for you is not a reason to say they are "illegal"...that is very irresponsible. Evey business that uses Independent Contractors has to be careful they are doing it right.
Any business that is wrong is just wrong, but Multi-VA firms are not inherently wrong.
If started right (and the ones I have worked for have been) and legally covered (like any good business should be) then they are great ways for people that either don't have the funds or the inclination to personally market their services to get and sustain a business and living for themselves.
They give clients multiple resources and skill-sets in one place, eliminating the need to contract with multiple providers, and some DO make a lot of money for both their subs and their owners.
But, I must say that in one way I am happy you posted this...if it stops others from starting Multi-VA firms...that's just more clients for us!
Don't be scared of change...sometimes it's good!
Posted by: Tina Caldwell | June 16, 2010 at 01:38 PM
Wow, I read this post and I didn’t take away from it the idea that Multi VA practices were scary or illegal. Nor did I get the sense that Stacy was against them. If you know anything at all about her, you must know she’d want to know that one’s foundation was intact. She’ll always ask that. It is what she does and it is who she is. But if you can say without flinching that your foundation is intact, then, life is golden. Prove it and she once utter a peep. I know this to be true.
My take away from this post was simply, if you’ve laid the proper foundation, a multi VA practice could work quite well. Period.
Oddly, I felt fired up for different reasons. I read it and felt vindicated. I am new to the VA industry and trying very hard to find my way. I love my regular J –O- B and I am darn good at it. Plus add to that the fact that I make a fantastic (and steadily increasing) salary! I love what I do. But . . .
I wanted to be a VA for exactly all the reasons Stacy stated in this post: "a way for a person to have a business of her own, doing work she loved, having ample time for her life, that could move about (geographically) as she did, that would give her security and flexibility, and allow her to make good money. Sufficient money."
Halleluiah! Hooray! Nice to know that I am not an anomaly!
As a new VA I am inundated daily with no less than 20 ways to increase my income. Mind you, ALL require a substantial amount of money! And several (more than I care to count) promise I’ll be well on my way to a six-figure salary. Most of the things I’m told to want are being taught by former VAs.
I’ve only encountered a few VAs willing to say that six figures might be the exception and not the rule. And I don’t think those were willing to put that in print. Why should they when perhaps they’d like to sell me services. Services that will do what, you ask? INCREASE MY INCOME to SIX FIGURES!
Personally I value the opportunity to manage my expectations and appreciate that my lack of desire to make six figures in my new business is not indicative of my lack of drive or my fear of success. (And yes, I have been told this!)
So now I can delete all those emails and cancel my enrollment to the 99 programs folks told me I needed.
All I can say is I really enjoyed this bit of moxie!
Posted by: Joslyn | June 16, 2010 at 01:57 PM
Stacy, I think we're having issues with some of the blanketed comments in your posts regarding multi-VA firms.
Here were the points I took issue with:
"And every multi-VA firm owner I’ve talked with is operating illegally and with undue risk."
-- You may want to spend some time talking to the women (and men) who have posted here regarding their LEGAL multi-VA firms. Find out how much fun it is to work in a team, find out the motivation, etc. You'll realize that the multi-VA firms you've spoken to may just be a really poor test market.
"I’m not sure when success ended up equaling gobs of cash."
-- Having this in your post about multi-VA firms makes it appear that we're equating our own success to money and that's false. Our reasons and motivations around starting a firm are our own. This is not an accurate statement of how we measure success.
"But I do have one other thought. It’s that for the multi-VA model to “work” with contractors, it probably has to run illegally."
-- It doesn't HAVE to run illegally. As many people stated, it works VERY well when setup well.
"Next time you hear about a firm, ask the owner how much actually went into her pocket, how many HOURS she worked and doing what, and how many times she wanted to pull her hair out or cry herself to sleep over issues/problems that arose and/or the huge responsibility which fell squarely on her shoulders.
Then compare that to the practice you can build on your own, and decide for yourself if it’s even worth considering owning a multi-VA firm."
-- This can be said about ANY business. I've coached virtual assistants for years and have met stressed out, tired, responsibly-held VAs who were in a multi-VA business or in a solo practice. It doesn't change just because we have more responsibility. The pros far outweigh the cons.
Anyway, I thank you for opening up the conversation and allowing us to share our opinions. You have to understand that it's detrimental to our businesses to have potential clients reading this and taking it for "truth"... If it were more objective and weighed in on both sides, you'd have a lot less comments defending the model.
Erin
Posted by: Erin Blaskie | June 16, 2010 at 02:08 PM
This conversation has been enlightening for me. I will admit to being completely ignorant of the multi-va model, so I was happy to read what those of you who are currently successful with it have to say.
Stacy, I'm glad for your added post, because I was beginning to think I had missed the part where you said that all multi-VA practices are being run illegally (in fact, I didn't miss it, you didn't say it!)
So here's my thought, and I hope that those of you who are running multi-VA firms can let me know if I'm off base. If you want to buy a pure-bred dog, people will tell you to be sure to use a reputable breeder so you aren't supporting puppy mills. Not everyone out there selling dogs is a puppy mill, but you know there are a lot of them out there. That said, there *are also* plenty of people out there who are fine reputable dog breeders, you just have to be sure you're making that distinction. Puppy mills are in it for money with pretty much total disregard for the dogs or their owners. Good breeders do it for the love of the breed and the joy they can bring to the new owners by helping them bring a new pet who is a great fit into their family.
Now, I'm not calling anyone or their VAs a dog :-) but just like with breeders (or anything else for that matter) there are good companies and bad companies. I think that Stacy's precaution is a good one - if you are moving from a solo VA practice to creating your own multi-VA practice, there is a lot more to be worried about from a legal standpoint than your own rear end, and you should be sure you are addressing those issues properly. For those of you who are running these companies legally and successfully, kudos to you, and I'm so glad you chimed in to share your thoughts - I learned something new today!
Posted by: Heather | June 16, 2010 at 02:48 PM
I think you are partially right, Stacy. I have a "multi-VA firm", they work with the clients, I pay them well, they are all US based (bookkeepers, in my opinion, should only work on their home turf, too many laws out there). I'm actually a pretty good person to work with. My business attorney and accountant know me well. LOL.
I think "Multi-VA" is a fine term, in and of itself, but the definition can be flawed. Just because you have a regular subcontractor that does a few hours of work each month for you (or a few subcontractors) doesn't make you a multi-VA firm. Unfortunately, some are putting themselves out there as such.
It's the same thing with people who claim to make six figures. I guess that's the thing with me being a bookkeeper. There's a huge difference in your salary and your companies gross income. Six figure business income is great, but it's a misnomer and one I think isn't fair to the newbies that thing they are going to open up a six figure multi-va firm from the get go (and yes, I've talked to people that have not a client in sight and say that's what they're doing). People, you cannot say you have a six figure business if you don't have any clients. I'm just sayin' *laughing* I'm not directing that towards anyone, just a weird trend I'm seeing that's really... well, weird.
Education is the key. I freely admit my salary is six figures and my business does a few hundred thousand per year gross so hopefully that wasn't directed towards me ;) LOL (kidding, I know you love me)
I also make no qualms about telling people that it's freaking HARD WORK and I bust my butt on a regular basis to damn well earn every penny. Not only for myself, but for my team as well.
There are days I want to throw in the towel and go flip burgers (it's a frequent fantasy during tax season), but for the most part, I love what I do.
Okay, so there's my 30 cents.
Posted by: Candy Beauchamp | June 16, 2010 at 04:39 PM
Here's my own thoughts, having read this post.
People have to earn a living wage.
Some people appear to succeed at a particular venture.
Other people notice this and think about jumping on the bandwagon.
Some actually succeed...others, for various reasons, don't.
You see the same thing right within the model of a sole-proprietor-type VA business.
That's why one of the things I loved from the get-go about AssistU (I am a graduate) is that as part of the admission process, you have to read a good deal of information about myths and fantasies about going into business for yourself, the importance of having a workable transition plan, and what it *really* takes to succeed. I knew that they weren't trying to just sell me training; they were making every effort to see to it that I got information to help me make a well-thought-out decision about whether going into business for myself was the right thing for me. If so, *then* we could talk about whether I qualified for their particular training program.
And to be honest, that's exactly what I see in Stacy's post here.
Is she saying that multi-VA firms are "bad"? If so, I missed it.
What I do see is someone saying, "Hey, make sure you look at every factor so that you make a truly wise decision."
I'm in no position to know what the tax ramifications are of a multi-VA model. I'm perfectly happy to leave the risks - as well as any possible benefits - to other people who are attracted to that model...and committed to doing so in a responsible way.
For me, the model I genuinely enjoy is to work closely and personally with a small handful of clients.
I did find the comparison made earlier about multi-VA firms being like general contractors interesting, having grown up with the building trades.
Now, I don't know the answers to any of these things in regard to multi-VA firms, (and I'm mentioning things below out of curiosity and because I'm mulling it over, not casting aspersions).
Smart general contractors (the ones who stay in business over the long haul) are insured up the wazoo...for all kinds of different things. (Interestingly, you can even take out insurance to cover you in case of customer non-payment.) They require current certificates of insurance to be submitted by all of their subcontractors...for every job. They have big contracts on every job with all kinds of legalese...and this is contracts with the customer, plus contracts with every subcontractor. In other words, the smart ones cover their butts every which way to Sunday, including being careful to partner only with subcontractors who've built up a reputation of reliability.
You CAN make a lot of money at it (I know people who have). And I know they deserve every penny because they worked hard and swallowed all the risks. (Even with your butt covered every which way to Sunday, there are risks.)
So, IS that a truly apt comparison in every way? (Multi-VA model to general contractor?) I don't have enough information to decide.
Another thing I thought of: Someone mentioned concern that business owners will read something like this and just take it as truth and look no further. Seems to me that the truth is (and it also happens to be something that Stacy's said before), there are an awful lot of VA's out there and an awful lot of business models.
The *smart* client is one who's going to learn something about the different models, know themselves, know what they want, and choose themselves the model they feel best suits their own individual needs and style. And that's going to be one type of VA for one person - and another type of VA for someone else.
The not-so-smart client is just going to jump on some bandwagon in a hurry.
I genuinely don't see in Stacy's post anything that would damage the businesses of those people who have chosen a multi-VA model. You can find a "but" attached to pretty much anything good and you can find some silver lining in most things that aren't so good. Why wouldn't the same be true of *any* VA business model?
The important thing, I think, is simply to be educated (whether as a VA or as a client) and then choose the option that best serves *you*.
Posted by: Nicole Paull | June 16, 2010 at 07:19 PM
With regard to Erin's suggestion that my writing a writing a more objective piece would have brought less defensive responses, I promise to do exactly that if I ever write about this as an article for the Times!
But this is my blog with my opinions and thoughts (and I said that no less than four times in this post alone). And the entire gig *here* is to write about what I want to share.
What I shared was a cautionary message: if you're going to do it, be sure to do it right. That's all that it was. And I wouldn't change it even with a do-over.
Even with the other voices added to the conversation, for which, again, I'm grateful, my position on this hasn't changed. If anything, the protestations have made it stronger for me.
I'm clearer than ever that advising slow, considered action, toward this or any other model, is super smart.
Posted by: Stacy | June 17, 2010 at 10:42 AM
Hi Nicole,
I am the person that made the comparison of a Multi-VA firms to a general contractor. I respect that you said you were not sure on that one. To answer your questions (or to speak to your points), you are absolutely right on the "CYA" aspect of general contracting. That was my point exactly; the Multi-VA firms I have worked for are covered exactly the same way, with legal contracts and agreements. One, I know of for sure, also has E & O insurance for their firm. And I hope that anyone reading this post and the comments that is thinking about starting a Multi-VA firm heeds that advise; CYA!
I do have to disagree with both you and Stacy on one point though:
When Stacy says things like:
"But I do have one other thought. It’s that for the multi-VA model to “work” with contractors, it probably has to run illegally."
That is far more than a cautionary message; she is flat out saying "I think" that this model *has* to be illegal. THEN she goes on to caution.
What she said was two different things...one of which was very demeaning to owners and workers in this model. She said that she were pretty sure they were criminals.
And lets not make light of your experience and influence in the Virtual Assistant arena Stacy...your words are powerful.
A misuse of that power is dangerous and should not be used to demean other honest, legal, competent, smart, very hardworking VA's by calling their business model "illegal".
Posted by: Tina Caldwell | June 17, 2010 at 11:32 PM
Hi Stacy,
You know I would have to chime in here. :-)
I would like to point out that AssistU is structured no different than most multi-va companies. You contract with other VAs to support AssistU. Regardless if you pay them or not (as I know some are voluntary positions), it is still a team of VAs that help to run the back-end of your company.
That is no different than what I do. I have contracted with other VAs to support my clients in the areas where I do not excel, or areas where I no longer have the time to take on. I am a firm believer that no one person can be all things to their clients so I have aligned myself with others to fill the gaps. I transitioned into the multi-va model because 1. there are tasks I hate doing that my clients wanted done, 2. There are tasks I don't excel at, and 3. I was capped out on time. If I wanted to add more clients, I needed a team to support me.
In the same way, the VAs who go through the AssistU program are your clients. There is no way you personally could be all things to us that AssistU has to offer. You need help in supporting your AssistU clients, and that is why you have a team.
I do want to echo what you said and others have said also, just as being a VA is not for everyone, running a multi-va structure is not either. The way I run my business is not going to work 100% for someone else. If you are interested in this model, talk to as many people as you can. Find out what has worked for them, what hasn't, take a little bit of this, a little bit of that and find the structure that works best for you. Bottom line, there are no cookie-cutter methods to running any business!
That's my 2-cents. Cant wait to see what trouble you stir up with your next post - ha!
Posted by: Kristi Pavlik | June 19, 2010 at 11:57 AM
Tina...
My opinion that to do this model profitably, the business would "probably" have to be run illegally is not at all the same as saying someone is a criminal.
Even if someone's business was running illegally, I would *never* call that person a criminal. For you to suggest that simply shows you don't know me at all.
Posted by: Stacy | June 19, 2010 at 03:46 PM
Kristi...
I know you think that (about AssistU). and I disagree.
For me, a multi-va firm is one in which the biz owner is the contractor of the client, and then uses other people (usually subcontractors) to do some/all of the client's work.
That's not at all what we do at AssistU.
Yes; I use some contractors to handle some work for my company--just like every client of VAs does. But I don't subcontract--first, because I'm not in business to do that (meaning the business isn't of the sort that needs that), but also because of all of what I've written in this post (and the other one linked to it).
Posted by: Stacy | June 19, 2010 at 03:55 PM
Stacy -
I guess my confusion comes then with what your definition of a subcontractor vs. "using some contractors" is then.
And I still don't see how that is not what you do at AssistU, but that is ok too.
The beauty of it all is that we can respectfully disagree on this topic and still each of us have successful businesses and get along with each other.
I think that different points of views are healthy. I'm not trying to change your mind, your not trying to change mine, just simply stating our opinions. I encourage all of you reading these posts to do your due diligence, form your own opinions and go make your own successful businesses - what ever that model may be!
Posted by: Kristi Pavlik | June 20, 2010 at 12:26 PM
This is really a great discussion. I have thought some about the multi-VA model. I was never sure if it would work for me.
I always liked the simplicity of the solo-VA model. On the other hand, I have been attracted to the broad scope of talent and skills that the multi-
VA model can offer clients (as well, as the potential for increased income).
Stacy's post and the resulting comments gives me much food for thought and much more to research.
Thanks to all!
Posted by: Yvonne Thompson | June 21, 2010 at 12:26 PM